Hearthstone Needs to Rotate out the Classic Set
by JR Cook - 8 years ago show comments
We’ve talked a lot lately about Hearthstone’s new Standard Mode. We’ve given you infographics, we’ve given you an opinion on what the effect of the set rotation will be, we’ve even talked about whether this decision was influenced by corporate greed. But today we will go in-depth in one particular topic, and that’s Blizzard’s decision about the Classic Set remaining a staple of the Standard Format. All those cards you’ve gotten from Classic Packs will forever be available to be included in Standard decks, and in my humble opinion that’s going to be detrimental to the game.
When the whole point of a set rotation is to freshen up the game by constantly changing which deck archetypes are considered top tier, having a huge chunk of cards that isn’t rotated out will prevent the meta from completely shaking up as some of the top tier decks are way too rooted on both the basic and classic sets for them to go away anytime soon. But that’s not the only point, lets break this argument down piece by piece.
Amount of Cards
Right now, the Basic and Classic set amount to 378 collectible cards, Naxx and GVG combine into 155 collectible cards, while the remaining three sets give us 208 cards, for a grand total of 741 total cards you can put in your deck right now.
This means that should the number of cards released per year remain constant, slightly over 50% of the card will ALWAYS remain on the meta, that doesn’t leave much room for change. More shocking is the fact that only 20% of the cards are being rotated out each year.
Sure, as I discussed on my article about the failures of The Grand Tournament, I’m expecting Blizzard to start releasing bigger sets. This means this issue would be mitigated by that, and also by the fact that it looks like Blizzard will also be increasing its number of non-adventure expansions released.
Still, it remains to be seen how much will this change. 50% is a big number, and I have my doubts that the new expansion release schedule will do enough to bring that to a manageable number.
Design Space
One of my favorite things about a card rotation is that it opens up design space, Blizzard will now be able to make a lot of interesting cards without having to worry that their interactions with older cards will break the competitive metagame. This means that every year we could be seeing awesome new mechanics that completely change how the game is played, except that the Classic Set has the potential to block some things from ever happening.
Card Power
Tirion Fordring will always be a part of Standard, how do you compete for that late-game slot in slower paladin decks? Or how do you print a late-game Mage legendary that can be an alternative to Archmage Antonidas? It’s not impossible, but I don’t see it being easy either, especially without generating power creep. Maybe we should just roll with the crowds and point the finger at Druid: Ancient of Lore, Force of Nature, Keeper of the Grove, Druid of the Claw, and even Wrath. When you add up the Basic set counterparts such as Savage Roar, Wild Growth, Innervate, Swipe – We just realize that the core of the Midrange Druid is just too big, too many cards that will always and forever will make that deck archetype viable and stagnant. And I just mentioned class cards, we still have Classic Neutrals like Azure Drake to account for.
The only way to replace these cards would be by printing stronger cards to replace them, and that power creep is exactly what the set rotation is trying to avoid. Blizzard’s short-term solution is to nerf down some of the cards to make the deck more flexible to changes, but what’s the point of having unusable cards stuck with us for ever in the rotation? Hearthstone Balance is a delicate thing, just changing one mana in one card can take it from staple to highly situational, just look at Leeroy Jenkins and Gadgetzan Auctioneer. If we ever want to see a fluid metagame where new interesting concept decks are continuously rotating in and out of the format, you need to rotate out the classic set.
Why isn’t Blizzard rotating classic out then?
My best informed guess is that Blizzard is worried about losing players with this transition, scared of it even. When we imagine a player that had taken a break from Hearthstone and returns to find out his entire collection is suddenly not legal in the main format, you can expect that said player could decided that he’s done with Hearthstone for good. One of the main critiques of the new set rotation is that some of the more casual players think Blizzard is doing this just because they are greedy and they want to force people into buying new cards. One would have to guess that Blizzard is catering to that crowd by telling them not to worry, that their biggest set is a safe investment, they can buy classic packs and don’t have to worry about those cards going out of style, except when they nerf them to the ground of course.
Then we have to return to the amount of cards printed argument, if they rotated Classic out this year, the total amount of cards we would have to play with in Standard would really be minuscule, only 341 cards plus what the next expansion brings. And if we consider that most of those cards would be those TGT cards that are currently labeled as useless, I doubt people would be happy.
Then there’s the point of the feel of each class, it’s important for Blizzard that Mages always feel like Mages, and Druids always feel like Druids. By keeping the cores of the classes intact, you can achieve this goal easily. But do we want easy? Maybe we just want good, and as long as you continue creating cards that make the classes feel close to their identity we should be ok, plus Basic cards should be enough to retain the identity of each class, right?
Blizzard does have his reasons for keeping Classic in, but I feel like you could achieve those goals differently, what does everyone think? Should Blizzard rotate out Classic? Let me know using the comment section below.
I feel strongly about the need for Blizzard to rotate out Classic, but I don’t think it is as simple as just eliminating the set from Standard. In order for Classic to be truly phased out harmlessly, you would have to put a careful plan in motion. I have a few ideas on how Classic could be rotated out, but that’s a topic for a different piece, so be on the look out for my thoughts on the subject.
As someone who has been out of Magic: The Gathering for 6 years now and have about 15+ years of Magic Cards, I recently tried to get back into it.
Guess what? I can’t play with any of my currently owned thousands of cards if I want to play in any kind of competitive standard set. I suddenly don’t feel like playing it anymore.
This is what Hearthstone is trying to avoid. They want you to have cards you can play with competitively if you take a break over a length of time. It’s probably even more important in a digital card game than it is in a physical one.
There are way better ways of addressing that, and Hearthstone already has a built in safeguard mechanic with the basic set.
The basic set? Please. Outside of class cards it’s largely useless
That’s why I play EDH m friend. I have 1 or 2 decks that I tune, and not worry about cards rotating out. All with the exception of a 20-something card ban list.
And I will not do Wild for Heartstone because it’s a digital tcg, if for whatever reason Blizzard shuts down then bye bye my access to content. At least if WotC shuts down, all the cards are still usable. I’ll pay a little bit to get dust for basic cards to play standard, but not dish out a whole wallet for a Wild deck.
I also come from a CCG background, mostly Magic, but I was playing Jyhad when they converted it over to Vampire: The Masquerade. As much as they tried to keep the feel, they inadvertently changed the feel of the game as they changed the cards. Magic kept this from happening when they first started rotating cards out of the base edition rotating them out for a cycle, maybe two and then rotating them back in. It kept the meta a constant state of flux, and encouraged new players, but then the pressure to add more change to the game caused the problem that Eldorian spoke of below. While I see the value in rotating SOME of the classic cards out, but only to rotate back in as others rotate out.
It’s an interesting idea, actually one of those I’d put in motion. I’ll have a full piece on it soon.
Your +50% standard number only holds true for 2016. Once we move into an expansion-adventure-expansion cycle the basic/classic proportion of the deck will be between 47% and 39%, with 30% of the cards getting rotated out annually.
If power ratings were unchanged then I would like to keep all the neutral classic cards, phasing out just the class cards (but putting a nerfed version of the class legendary in the basic deck).
Ideally I’d like to see a slightly more generous budget for the new cards. They wouldn’t have the power creep issue because they only have to be slightly better than classic as opposed to the current situation of slightly better than the preceding deck. I expect to see more powerful cards because the designers will be less conservative since they no longer have to worry about current and future interactions forever influencing the game.
I made a serie on my YouTube channel (PT-BR) where I explain why the rotation is good and how Blizzard will adjust some cards to have more room for new card design and ideas. The reason why the nerfs will have to be made and why they are going to be brutal and unfair sometimes is because they really do not want to rotate the Classic.
I totally agree with you that Classic should be rotate, but for now it will have to stay, on the next rotation, it should go away. My point is that if Classic rotates now, many players will have that feeling of betrayal and stop playing or not even joining the game, but for the next year people will be expecting it.
To keep the players and give them a safe investmente, I would release a “Yearly Classic Set”, with 60% to 70% reprinted cards. This will give people a safe investment and can nicely shake the meta.
This is absolutely my number one concern with the approach they’re taking. I totally understand why they want the vanilla sets to be evergreen, but in order for Standard to have the variety they want, it means the overall power level of the classic set needs to be noticeably lower than the expansions. As already mentioned, this just isn’t the case so far, especially with TGT in particular.
Tyrion and Antonidus are perfect examples. Those cards don’t necessarily need to be nerfed, but they are top tier and if they’re always in Standard, they will always be used. I can’t ever see a paladin deck that doesn’t use Tyrion, just like right now we can’t see a druid deck that doesn’t use 2/3 vanilla cards because they’re so strong. Druid is a more obvious example because it has a higher quantity of powerful cards, but anything that is just an auto-include for that class is problematic.
I’m definitely concerned they aren’t going far enough in their overhaul of the vanilla sets. I know they said they plan to revisit it periodically and make additional adjustments if necessary, and I totally understand why they want to take it slowly. But on the other hand, if you’re going to do a massive overhaul, this is the time to do it.
I still cannot help but wonder how TGT would have fallen if rotation was already a thing… how many “bad cards” would have been in most decks if they did not have to compete with the Booms and Shredders out there.
And who knows? maybe the next set will introduce a mechanic that completely shakes up Druid and this will end up being a nonissue about their current playstyle.
Following what JR said, I have played Magic for 20 years and for the past 10 years I literally refuse to play Constructed. I play 2HG with my Dad and will do Sealed/Drafts but with the massive turnover every year and new and confusing mechanics if I only play 1-2 times a year at GenCon there is no incentive for me to keep relearning the game. I have the most fun when they release new core set and I get to see my Serra Angels and Llanowar Elves again, and now after “Origins” they are doing away with even those.
So I really like the idea of keeping the Core set around, and I know they have basic but isn’t really enough. Keeping in mind Classic used to be called Expert, they were really meant to go together. In 2 years if I came back and jumped in, a third of my decklist would still be viable and I could then buy some new packs or play all basic/classic or play Wild to earn gold and get caught up again.
Blizzard talked about exit points and that is definitely a large one. I used to work on collecting gold cards and filling my collections but at this point I don’t feel the need to work that hard on it, but will continue to try with Classic. They are also giving out 1-2 free Classic a week with Brawls and Spectate quests. I am constantly trying to get friends and family to try the game, so having something they can work that won’t go “extinct” is very helpful to new players who have no idea what all these formats mean. I made my wife craft Boom just last month and now I have to figure out if she should play Wild with less cards or go to Standard and lose the work we have been doing getting her through Naxx and building stronger decks.
I think keeping Classic around is definitely good for now, it keeps new players with a core set, old players with something to build a collection on that won’t retire, and retains the feel of each class along with Basic. I agree that some classes benefit more than others with this, and hopefully the annual balance changes will keep these in line, and give us some old cards to rely on with plenty of new fun cards and mechanics to build on.
Thanks!
Ace
What is the malfunction with people who desperately want Blizzard to make their cards worthless? Of course a huge portion of the current player base would leave if they did that. They will already have that problem with the current plan. Certainly many average players no longer feel there money is well spent on this game and will be strictly f2p going forward.
Guys that write blogs and spend 20x what the average Heartstone player does are really out of touch. People have better things to spend their money on. Blizzards business model isn’t about getting the 1% of pros and and bloggers to spend money. They will already do that. They need to convince normals to pay. So far they are betting on brining in new paying customers. Time will tell how sustainable that is as they have just lost a huge chunk of them and will continue to do so when new players see their cards retired.
Classic has to be kept – that being said I do think that some cards will prove themselves unreplaceable or will prove themselves too oppressive – and in that case I say: Ban them.
For instance, as Kibler said, Bounty Hunter will (likely) always be an oppresive monster. It will always make big creatures too weak or unreliable, and if that ends being the case, then just ban him.
I think Classic set needs to stay in, otherwise people that leave the game for a while will find their collection worthless and will just be pushed away from the game, and I think that Classic is (generally) a good stable base to build the game upon.
I have played standard in MtG, and my first question is why on earth would I spend money to pimp out a deck when the cards are just going to get rotated out in a year or so? I’m certainly not going to drop money for cards that don’t have good usage forever.
That’s why I play EDH in MtG. Have access to most cards in existence and don’t worry about WotC nerfing anything compared to Blizzard does to Hearthstone.
Why don’t I just play Wild then? Blizzard is not going to get money from me just to make a pimped out Wild deck. I don’t like the idea of dumping cash into online tcgs anymore, thank Ubisoft’s Might&Magic: Duel of Champions. That game after a few years is shutting down, I’ve spent a stupid amount to make a good deck, and to keep up in standard. And for what? To lose access to digital content eventually. At least in WotC’s EDH, I get to keep those cards and play with others who also have those decks.
I’m not even complaining how my beloved Naxx cards will never be usable in Standard, I’m biting that bullet. I would have just quit altogether if all my cards were not allowed in standard play. I wouldn’t have spent the money to complete a Wild deck, and I wouldn’t have spent the money to make a deck in a world where basics were rotated out of standard.
Better to leave the option open, if I don’t want to spend anymore money; then I can still play standard. If I do want to spend money on new sets, then I have the choice.
Right now I’m deciding what Legendaries to spend my dust on. It certainly won’t be Legends from the new sets since they will rotate out. So my choice is to spend that dust on Classic cards, which will not lose value if I wish to play standard.