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Mending Mondays GvG#3: Time to Recycle

by - 9 years ago

While a lot of people scream for nerfs when cards feel overpowered, I don’t see many people calling for buffs to long forgotten cards. In my mind, every non-joke card should at least be a decent fit in a viable deck. Also, the meta would grow a lot more interesting if a wider array of cards suddenly started seeing play. So without further ado… Welcome back to Mending Mondays, a weekly feature where I, Dannie “IAmDiR23” Ray will take a look at some of the worst cards in the Hearthstone and evaluate why they are deemed to be horrible, and what could be done to fix them.


recycle

Last week our Identity Enigma puzzle asked you to think green, and here at Mending Mondays we feel like we also need to step up to the plate. Can we Recycle this Druid card into something useful? Let’s take a look!

Why is it so bad?

To completely understand Recycle, we need to know what it does for us. Recycle takes a target enemy minion away from the battlefield. Much like the Rogue’s Sap, you take it away without destroying it, which means it won’t proc that annoying Deathrattle effect. Just like Sap, the opponent has a second chance to play his minion. But while the victim of a Sap can be immediately played back into the battlefield, a minion that has been targeted with Recycle needs to be drawn again.

Sap

It is this slight difference between the two abilities worth the whooping four extra mana cost? If we try to pinpoint down the difference, we find out that it amounts to basically a card worth of card advantage.  I mean if Recycle allowed your opponent to draw a card after he lost his minion, then it would be pretty similar to Sap. Is denying your opponent a card worth 4 mana? Players don’t  seem to think so, as Recycle doesn’t really see play. Meanwhile, Sap remains a Rogue staple.

Look at the worth of instantly drawing a card, compare Wisp with Novice Engineer, Ogre Magi with Azure Drake, Chillwind Yeti and Dancing Swords, or Gnomish Inventor and Spider Tank. Usually adding 1 point worth of card draw is worth about 1.5 mana. This pretty much means that at 3 mana, Recycle would be considered a SICK card, at 4 mana it would likely still be a good card. But the sad reality is that it costs 6.

PolymorphHex

Lets look at it from other angle, compare it with other forms of non-kill removal such as Hex and Polymorph. You could look at Recycle as a Polymorph that doesn’t leave a 1/1 behind, but instead puts the card back into the deck. Again, we are looking at 4 mana as our benchmark.

But this takes us to our next point, a card that only serves as removal is incredibly reactive, and its only as good as its target. One of the best things about Sap is that it might allow you to get a huge tempo advantage. Imagine you cast Sap on something like a Savannah Highmane, you just spent 2 mana to undo the effect of a 6-mana card. This tempo gain is completely lost as you increase the mana cost of the card, and even if you get an extra effect in the form of card advantage, the number of desirable targets for your spell diminish and your card becomes less versatile.

 

SiphonSoul

But what happens when you face aggressive decks that top out at 4-drops? Your 6-mana recycle is going to feel like a wasted card. You can compare it to the Warlock’s Siphon Soul, but that only goes in decks that are packing a lot of AOE removal in form of Hellfire and Shadowflame. Plus, the 3 gained life from Siphon Soul is a positive effect, while the fact that you won’t trigger Deathrattles merely offsets that you’re shuffling the minion into your opponent’s deck instead of permanently getting rid of it.

Summary of Badness:

  • Costs WAY too much mana.
  • Weak against aggro.

Finding this Card’s Heart

An obvious buff to this card would be to turn it into Sap or Execute. But that’s not what we are interested on, we want to stay true to the heart of the card and thus we need ask ourselves what is what really defines this card.

Just looking at the name of the card and its effect, we know that the shuffling effect fits perfectly. We want to try and keep that, so lets see what we can do about its cost and some possible additional effects. Could we interpret recycle as something other than shuffling the minion back into a deck? Perhaps, and it’s time to find out.

Possible Improvements

The obvious buff is to cut the mana cost. A 4-mana removal single target would certainly be a more appealing tool for Druid, but is this the only thing we can do? When you recycle, you really want to make something old into something new. Perhaps cutting the cost further and allowing your opponent to draw a card instead would make it a strong tempo option.  Or maybe drawing the card yourself would allow this to remain competitive at higher mana costs. What about shuffling the minion into your own deck instead? They do say that one man’s trash is another man’s treasure.

The Results

MMGvG3Card1

This is the Vanilla version, you could consider it a stronger Polymorph or maybe just a version with a different drawback. Druid is lacking in single target removal and this might be what Druid needs to build itself differently. Then again, the meta might just be too aggro for 4-mana removal cards to really shine in it.

 

MMGvG3Card2

This is the “we are committed to keep Recycle as a 6-mana card”. This plays in the recycling theme as you not only do away with your opponent’s old minion, but get to draw something of it. More importantly, the minion is shuffled into YOUR deck. This means that you get card advantage, but don’t really dig deeper into your deck. A card like this could find its way into a Druid list that controls the match all the way into fatigue. You’ll notice that compared to the original version of Recycle, you are both drawing a card and getting to shuffle the minion into your deck instead. That’s how bad the original Recycle feels.

MMGvG3Card3

Mind Control meets new Bane of Doom. The put a (random) minion from your deck into the battlefield, mimics the effect on Deathlord. This time the Recycling comes in the form of destroying an existing minion to make a completely new one. Destroy the minion rather than shuffle it, mainly because of text box economy. Nailing down a cost for this card proved very difficult, and I’m not quite sure if the 8-mana cost is anywhere near correct. The effect seen here is similar to the Priest’s Mind Control, where your opponent loses a minion and you gain one. But unlike the Priest 10-drop, you cannot choose which minion you get. While this might seem like a negative, it could also end up being a plus; imagine that your opponent has only mid-sized threats on the board, then maybe you’d rather gamble for one of your own threats. The big problem with this version of the card is that it doesn’t really fit with a lot of what’s out there for Druid. Both Ancients of Lore and War would lose on their “Choose One” effects, and so would Cenarius, Druid of the Claw, and Keeper of the Grove. Dr. Boom’s Battlecry is also completely negated. A card like this would have to see play in a different type of Control Druid that relies on different minions, and while that might seem like a good thing to spice the meta, my first reaction is that this version of Recycle is nowhere near good enough to make that type of deck competitive.

Oh well, at least it has positive synergy with Hungry Dragon…

I really like the concept on this last version. In fact, I’m surprised that with all the randomness in GvG this wasn’t a real thing. But still the cost is what’s bugging me, what would be an appropriate cost for it? I’d love to get your input so if are inclined to share your ideas, please leave a comment below.


Do you think some of the versions above are still too weak? Maybe absurdly overpowered? Messing with cards without the ability to test them is actually pretty challenging, but I try to do my best.

Be sure to check out past editions of Mending Mondays, and if you have any suggestions, be sure to leave them on the comments or hit me up on Twitter @DannieRay23.

 

 

 

 


JR Cook

JR has been writing for fan sites since 2000 and has been involved with Blizzard Exclusive fansites since 2003. JR was also a co-host for 6 years on the Hearthstone podcast Well Met! He helped co-found BlizzPro in 2013.


0 responses to “Mending Mondays GvG#3: Time to Recycle”

  1. Daren says:

    Hey Dannie, wouldn’t recycle at 4 mana be too much? You clearly stated recycle is better than polymorph. How about 5 mana?

    I dislike your second iteration too… which is a surprise, since I usually like a lot your ideas. You win 2 cards on that one… and usually a good/useful card too is added to your deck.

    On the subject of that last recycle, a minion from YOUR deck is a bit too strong. Since you have more control upon what kind deck you built for your druid and it is usually a ramp kind of deck, so it tends to be 4+ minions mostly, perhaps even the majority are in 5+.

    How about a 2 mana recycle that puts a random minion from the opponent’s deck into play? It would be closer to naturalize.

    Also, typical of druid is the chose one mechanic, where you get less efficient mana-wise choices (except for druid of the claw) but versatility. Maybe that could have been explored. Like reshuffle enemy minion from play, or remove your own minion to gain 2 cards…

    • Dannie Ray says:

      In general, it’s really hard to evaluate the costs when the effects are a
      bit more complicated. I remember seeing a presentation from a Magic the
      Gathering Designer who said that when they were making their cards they
      had a team focused on making cool effects and concepts, then they
      passed it on to another team who worried about balance, and how to cost
      it appropriately.

      Usually I deal with effects that are a lot more
      Vanilla, this week proved extremely hard to cost and there’s really no
      huge reason to do a time consuming break down to find the exact cost
      where a card would be good. I think its better this way, where I think
      of a few ideas, try to quickly and maybe even haphazardly try to
      approximate the cost so the readers can chime in with what they think
      its good and what still needs work.

      A) Perhaps it would be too much at 4, but even at 5 it feels kind of lost.

      B) Shuffling an enemy minion into your deck pretty valuable if the game
      goes into fatigue, but there’s no guarantee that you’ll get it. The
      stolen card could even be top decked instead of a combo piece you
      needed. So the effect isn’t without its drawbacks. I agree its far from refined though.

      C) Yep, you do have control but as I mentioned the usual Druid minions would work horrible with that effect. Sure you can make a deck with fitting minions, but would that deck be any good when you down draw this? Could you consistently last long enough to make use of it?

      I think a very interesting question is, How good a minion you need to pop out of this in order for the card to get good value?

      Thanks for the feedback!

  2. ifog says:

    For Option 1: A 4 mana Recycle is not really less good than
    polymorph, since druid deck tend to drag to mid-game. For example – if
    you use recycle to get rid of Ragnaros and it gets drawn again next
    round, then sure – you’ve won some tempo, but you’ve duplicated a
    powerful card in your opponent’s deck after he already has enough mana
    to put it – you’ve actually improved his deck.

    Still though – I really like the second idea, no doubt a card named recycle should
    involve someone drawing a card. A 6 mana removal is definitely too weak
    to be used, and it’s a bit too similar to the 6 mana 5 dmg card with
    card draw, but I feel it’s closer to the card meaning.

    Even more I like Daren’s idea: a 2 mana recycle that puts a random minion from
    the opponent’s deck into play. A dangerous removal of the same spirit as
    naturalize – you could think here if you want first to bring the
    creature from the deck , or first shuffle the minion already out.

    The first option is much stronger since you can’t put the same minion that
    you recycled, and if there are no minions in the deck it’s just a tempo
    gain.

    What definitely should be changed in the
    card regardless of the option you chose – is allowing you to recycle
    your own minions. This would give a hidden strategic value to the card
    improving the skill cap of the game (you could recycle a damaged taunt,
    a silenced Malorne, or a healbotdraw murlock to a similar result as gang up in mill decks).

    • Dannie Ray says:

      Yeah, I agree about recycling your own minion. In fact, I think it makes more sense to only be able to recycle your own minions. Like at 1 mana, shuffle a friendly minion into your deck and draw a card? It’d certainly make it more unique.